tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14473417.post3244627012604773490..comments2024-03-15T01:34:45.154-07:00Comments on Chiron: PocketsRoryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08483616030072739190noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14473417.post-66976358182089269422011-10-26T11:46:40.584-07:002011-10-26T11:46:40.584-07:00Did anyone train with a phone in their hand? I sa...Did anyone train with a phone in their hand? I saw an actual attack on a small woman on video where she dropped the phone in her hand. The victim did not think of using it as a weapon against an unarmed large man.<br /><br />Operant conditioning is great for self-defense. Use the natural reflexes unleashed by fear. I was once attacked from behind while seated in a wooden chair in a darkened hallway. I rose to my feet while whirling around and at the same time with the whirling motion grabbed/threw the chair and smacked it across my attacker's shins. Don't ask me how that happened. It was completed in one motion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14473417.post-46784343013287278862011-10-26T02:27:32.441-07:002011-10-26T02:27:32.441-07:00Rory, Wim,
What is the goal? Is it to be effectiv...Rory, Wim,<br /><br />What is the goal? Is it to be effective or a master?<br /><br />If your goal is to master the skill, then Wim is right.<br /><br />If your goal is to be effective, then Rory is right. <br /><br />And nothing precludes working both goal in succession. Working first to become effective then as time allows working to become more efficient at it.<br /><br />My 2 cents,<br />JoshJosh Kruschkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09288700371539530398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14473417.post-51620268022275855942011-10-25T18:13:16.419-07:002011-10-25T18:13:16.419-07:00Rory,
I'd disagree that if you truly understan...Rory,<br />I'd disagree that if you truly understand something, you should be able to teach it quickly.<br /><br />Sometimes, I think you need the predicates in place to teach something. Those may not come quickly... Once you have the predicates stacked, you should be able to teach it quickly.<br /><br />Or maybe what I'm trying to say is that you can present something quickly & effectively -- but the student has to be ready to learn it.<br /><br />Not exactly sure that what I'm trying to say is coming through. I'm an FTO; there are things you just can't teach a rook until he's been on the street a little bit. We used to have an in-service class called "Criminal Patrol Tactics." I called it the "DOH!" class because you spent about half the class going "DOH! I missed that!" thinking back to your own stops or contacts. The thing is -- I could present that material to a rook straight out of the academy, and it'd be meaningless. They don't have a catalog of "normal" encounters and events to compare it to.<br /><br />Sorry if this is rambling a little; I know what I'm trying to say, just not quite how to get there.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15393212692342514984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14473417.post-26542562316255804172011-10-24T06:31:30.322-07:002011-10-24T06:31:30.322-07:00You never have to lurk, Wim. If we agreed about e...You never have to lurk, Wim. If we agreed about everything, one of us would be redundant. I only learn valuable stuff from people who see things differently than I do.<br /><br />I do believe that if you truly understand almost anything, you can teach it quickly. And I <i>believe</i> that those things that take 'decades to master' are indications that the instructor can do it but doesn't understand it and it takes a long time to work it out on your own...<br /><br />But I'm also aware that just because I believe something doesn't make it true AND that this verges on a circular argument. So no worries. Absolute respect returned...and if I can't handle disagreement and being wrong, I'm too stupid to learn and have no business teaching.Roryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08483616030072739190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14473417.post-42490406591991657392011-10-24T01:35:32.812-07:002011-10-24T01:35:32.812-07:00Rory,
We talked about this before and I guess we&...Rory,<br /><br />We talked about this before and I guess we're gonna have to agree to disagree. <br />Re. Fajin, it just means discharging energy. Though it's used a lot in the "internal" arts (hate that name), the concept isn't exclusive to those arts. Pretty much every art uses some sort of Fajin method. Which is my point: you can teach it in 20 min, sure. But that'll be only one version of it; there are plenty more. And who's to say which one you're learning? Us tai chi folks disagree about everything amongst each other. :-) <br />The same goes for levels of expertise with it. All of which, IMO, takes time and practice. Just because you know how something works, doesn't mean you can do it consistently in every single movement. <br /><br />Again, YMMV and no disrespect meant.<br /><br />Back to lurking in the shadows. :-)<br /><br />WimWimhttp://www.wimsblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14473417.post-44780081985737097842011-10-23T09:24:31.322-07:002011-10-23T09:24:31.322-07:00Scott- Thanks for the article. Next time I'm ...Scott- Thanks for the article. Next time I'm in Austin, let's talk. I think there's a concept, (goals backwards versus resource forward planning) that will really help.<br /><br />David- Same comment. I've been reading your e-book on the plane. Any big change, in speed, elevation, even in talk can create a pocket. Good point.<br /><br />Charles- That's the hit. The best chance for the weak to win is to be smarter, everyone gets stupid and stubborn under adrenaline... the obvious best practice is to control the when around your own adrenaline. Bad guys do it consistently, victims rarely have the opportunity...<br /><br />Randy- Very cool, but I think you can get the concept across much easier. I just use 'gifts'. E.G. "You almost never go in and make a lock or a takedown in a real fight. You get them when you find the gift the threat presents." Looking for the gift. learning to see is probably, IMO, the most critical skill.<br /><br />Matt- Very probably. There are things that are deep learning in internal martial arts that you pick up much faster and IME can use better with just a little exposure to grappling. There's also a short list of comments that are really easy to explain to grapplers ("You grab his neck and make your hand sticky") that are really tough to explain to people who haven't grappled. Wish I could find the words sometimes.<br /><br />Wim- I agree that there are really useful tools in traditional stuff. I'm not convinced that it needs to take a long time. Fab Siena, in Tokyo (gotta love a French guy who teaches Chinese arts in Japan) can teach Fah Jing effectively in about 20 minutes. I wish we would apply the same ruthless efficiency that fight with to examining our teaching methodology. <br /><br />Lise- Good advice. Every chance you get, play with what scares you.<br /><br />Molly- Brilliant. BTW, may have some free time this evening for the family. Call if you get a chance.Roryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08483616030072739190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14473417.post-26431708970375603172011-10-22T10:24:24.048-07:002011-10-22T10:24:24.048-07:00"Information first, since it doesn't dire..."Information first, since it doesn't directly (as far as I see right now) relate to pockets:"<br /><br />I know nothing about violence or martial arts - but wouldn't a "fake" or "feint" create a pocket of information - giving you space of information that they do not have?Mollyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13241218709688900676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14473417.post-76867500633919642532011-10-22T09:49:54.204-07:002011-10-22T09:49:54.204-07:00No, not everyone has it in him/her to react quickl...No, not everyone has it in him/her to react quickly and properly.<br /><br />Yes, I believe it can be learned.<br /><br /> I say find the biggest, baddest guy in your class, you know the one that scares the crap out of you, and pair up with him. Great way to get that stress inoculation and know what it feels like to be overpowered. This will teach you more about yourself than years of pairing up with the small non threatening whimpy kidLise Steenersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05040510534717038918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14473417.post-44278098588038851802011-10-21T10:35:28.249-07:002011-10-21T10:35:28.249-07:00Most of what you're talking about here, in the...Most of what you're talking about here, in the stuff I train in, pushing hands is supposed to teach you. IMO and IME, it can deliver this and also work under stress. To what degree depends on so many factors there's no longer a coherent answer to the question. <br /><br />It does seem to take a long time before you can get there though. Unless you start real young and have access to some good teachers. Hence the whole family style thing. <br /><br />My 2 cents,<br /><br />WimWimhttp://www.wimsblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14473417.post-81621279392286889212011-10-21T08:50:44.929-07:002011-10-21T08:50:44.929-07:00Rory, I haven't trained with you, but from you...Rory, I haven't trained with you, but from your writing I keep getting the impression that your personal style stems from your early experience with judo, which doesn't train people to take a punch to the face but does inoculate them against being manhandled, being twisted into odd positions, being stuck underneath someone, etc.<br /><br />Certainly my own BJJ training fundamentally changed my style, which had been built on the shaky base of point-sparring and then rebuilt on a base of (kick)boxing.<br /><br />I keep wondering if that's why you "get" concepts that other (good) martial artists struggle to put into practice.Isegoriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17023207677410289224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14473417.post-90128615981881753922011-10-20T13:06:51.079-07:002011-10-20T13:06:51.079-07:00One of the important components that this involves...One of the important components that this involves is what I refer to as affordance recognition. Briefly, affordances are perception-action couples of recognizing what something in the environment offers to us, either positive or negative; and what features of the environment as susceptible for manipulation by our bodies. <br /><br />We all do it all day long. Some people are especially good at it, the "MacGyver" types who can use items for purposes that they might not have been intended for, but can physically perform. So with fighting, affordance recognition skills are highly important for scenarios that don't allow the benefit of visual recognition. For example, someone shoving me into a wall from behind is providing me with information about their height, where they are in relationship to me, and to other features in the environment. The hand on my collar tells me that an arm is right behind it, and a shoulder behind that, with ribs and a belly below on the same general line, and a thigh and knee below that. Recognizing these relationships allows you to begin manipulating affordance between your most accesible weapon (changing according to position) and the attacker's available structures. <br /><br />In addition to tactile sensation-heavy drills and training scenarios, affordance recognition "games" are an important part of developing these skills. For example, spending time exploring the affordances of my elbow point to my partner's body before some rougher free drills can help to develop it. From standing and front facing, the side of your face offers smash an elbow-into-me-ability; after being forced down by the shoukders, suddenly your knees and inner thigh offer stab the elbow-point-into-me-ability, or uppercut me-in-the-balls-ability. <br /><br />Possibilities that an instructor might not mention can be explored and built upon, and very quickly one can learn to apply an affordance to similar but different scenarios that may arise. The suggestion of exploring these affordances from poor positions and awkward positions is one of the most important things for people to experience- otherwise they get habituated to only manipulating affordances which are familiar and comfortable, while affordances for non-optimal situations go unexplored. Fighting is usually in non-optimal conditions- so the decision of where to spend bulk of training time is obvious.Randyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00301022202057676472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14473417.post-10111262802923628082011-10-20T13:00:22.892-07:002011-10-20T13:00:22.892-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Randyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00301022202057676472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14473417.post-91426753677238932792011-10-20T10:16:29.776-07:002011-10-20T10:16:29.776-07:00Rory Miller asked: ... how many people can stay co...<i><b>Rory Miller asked: ... how many people can stay cool under assault?</b></i><br /><br />In my studies and view, few. As I have read and observed, rarely, even professionals are unable to stay cool under assault but they can mitigate the effects of the stress, i.e. the adrenaline dump and its effects. I don't believe many can stay cool even if they are able to train in a somewhat realistic manner. It comes down to my view, a personal one not based on any real experience, that until you actually get hit by an assault, a predatory one of considerable ruthlessness, you just can't know. It may be that we, as a human condition, live in a world where we will most likely never encounter this type of assault - hopefully.<br /><br />I also believe this is a major issue for martial artists who mostly have no clue to the experience of a predatory ruthless assault. It is one experience you can read about, you can try to imagine it but psychologically speaking the mind has no references until you experience the assault. <br /><br /><i><b>Rory Miller asked: ... can you train it such that it is just a natural and obvious way to think and move?</b></i><br /><br />Yes, I believe you can - only to an extent. It still falls into my first response above that until you experience it you just won't know and as other experts have written/spoken even then you don't know how it will go if you experience another one.Charles Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13812618556413423872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14473417.post-88392083252257333872011-10-20T10:07:13.272-07:002011-10-20T10:07:13.272-07:00I think the best way to survive when you're &q...I think the best way to survive when you're "losing" is to change the game, which can give you both time and make "pockets" available. I like what Scott said in that regard, but I'm not crazy about pulling guard since you won't know for sure if there's another opponent, and unseen weapon, if the surface is good for that, etc.<br /><br />If you're under attack and your opponent is standing, a drop or "level change" (which pulling guard is a form of) is a great way to change the game. Very few opponent's on the street are going to expect you to drop out of sight. They're likely to be concentrating on your head or upper body, and the drop is surprising. It's also pretty natural when you're under fire.<br /><br />I like to get people used to this by having them get blasted, then drop and throw two hard low shots followed by a high open hand hook, and then follow up as necessary. Another great option is to drop with a lunge, and rise (clinching) with a step through. Normally this puts you at the opponent's back, or at least under his arm where you can quickly get his back.<br /><br />The drop creates a "pocket" since you move to a zone that's not under heavy fire, where you're free to blast away yourself. Once you've taken advantage of that pocket you can then rise out of the drop with a serious advantage...you've changed the game. There are very few situations where the drop doesn't work to create a pocket, in my experience. You can also drop and "take off" to create some distance, but my preference is to blast out of it.Hertaohttp://www.hertao.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14473417.post-46641635720787363872011-10-19T12:59:26.418-07:002011-10-19T12:59:26.418-07:00Caveat: I'm talking about the One Unarmed Toug...Caveat: I'm talking about the One Unarmed Tough Guy problem here; weapons and multiples get solved by knife or gun.<br /><br />I read this many years ago and integrated it into my bjj practice: www.ironsports.tv/fallandmaul.html<br /><br />I like bjj partly because there are 3 unarmed ranges - freefighting, clinch, ground - and pulling guard lets me skip the first two, where the other guy is likely better (else he wouldn't have attacked, right?) Pulling guard's easy, triangling guys who haven't practiced against triangles is easy... if I want to be a nice guy I can likely pull guard, sweep, pass guard and lie on him in scarf hold for a couple of minutes while he exhausts himself trying to bench and bridge me off him, even if he could beat the shit out of me toe to toe. I believe sprinting is the primary unarmed civilian self-defense skill. Violence professionals, of course, don't have that option.<br /><br />I agree with you that some people can train for it and some can't. BJJ women's classes were instructive here; guard's a rape position, horrifying for a scared woman who's taking up self-defense. Practicing with other women is far less scary. After months of practice with women some graduate to open class, rolling with guys; probably small clean polite guys at first....Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04606348439737007635noreply@blogger.com