tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14473417.post2965744992414541900..comments2024-03-28T03:31:42.278-07:00Comments on Chiron: All InRoryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08483616030072739190noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14473417.post-56390849738051799392009-10-13T16:55:28.315-07:002009-10-13T16:55:28.315-07:00Maybe just publish a "glossary of terms"...Maybe just publish a "glossary of terms" for people who try to keep up....Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13474239229327570373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14473417.post-55556635128355573152009-10-13T15:47:42.243-07:002009-10-13T15:47:42.243-07:00Thanks, I try. :-)
and thanks for the answers. As...Thanks, I try. :-)<br /><br />and thanks for the answers. As you were saying earlier, there really does need to be some kind of agreed upon language for this stuff, if only to cut down on the amount of time spent not talking about things because it's lost in, "When you say X what do you mean, exactly?", that sort of exchange.<br /><br />Somebody should write a book!<br /><br />Mediations on Violence<br />Principles of Violence<br />The Language of Violence<br /><br />;-)Master Planhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14699687565908188376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14473417.post-79502757017643862682009-10-13T13:59:10.830-07:002009-10-13T13:59:10.830-07:00Sweet question, Jonas.
The Monkey Dance is the ba...Sweet question, Jonas.<br /><br />The Monkey Dance is the baseline descriptor- ritual status posture/violence in our species. Escalato is an excellent description of the investment of identity in the dance, "I don't want to get my ass kicked but I don't want people thinking I'm a chicken, so I'll talk even tougher."<br /><br />All in is a step beyond this. If the threat is Monkey Dancing and you jump steps to takedown, you have put more chips in and will reliably take him down while he is wondering why you aren't playing right. Monkey dance defenses (and de-escalations) don't work against predator assaults. Predators assault with a plan and an expectation of how much resistance they will get. If someone is willing to give than they were ready for, that's one thing. Sometimes it is more than they are willing to match.<br /><br />Another way the analogy works, look at George's story here:<br />http://chirontraining.blogspot.com/2008/01/expectations.html<br /><br />When George's best shot triggered a "this will be fun" reaction, it was a solid sign that he couldn't play the table stakes in the game he was sitting in for. Some people have more chips than others; but how much you have is not necessarily related to how much you are willing to risk.<br /><br />Achilles/Hector- it has been a long while since I read the Iliad, but IIRC, Achilles had been whining in one of his snits and Patroclus put on his armor to lead the Myrmidons. Hector didn't know it wasn't Achilles when he killed him. I don't see anything unrighteous with that kill whether Hector knew who he was really killing or not.<br /><br />I do see Achilles as a whiny, self-absorbed two-year old who was damn lucky he was half god because he was a zero as a man.<br /><br />RoryRoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08483616030072739190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14473417.post-34081649737917462942009-10-13T13:26:16.800-07:002009-10-13T13:26:16.800-07:00So what, in your (Rory) opinion are the finer dist...So what, in your (Rory) opinion are the finer distinctions between <br /><br />Escalato<br />The Monkey Dance<br />and<br />All In<br /><br />?Master Planhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14699687565908188376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14473417.post-8542103551747724372009-10-12T19:13:52.522-07:002009-10-12T19:13:52.522-07:00Depends on which version of the legend you like, b...Depends on which version of the legend you like, but if Paris shot Achilles in his vulnerable heel under the guidance of Apollo for the kill, then Hector never had a prayer, no matter what his feeling was about Patriclus.<br /><br />If it takes the guidance of a pissed-off god to slay somebody -- and an arrow to the heel is probably not usually a mortal wound -- then Hector was toast from the git-go.<br /><br />The lesson is, if you don't have a god on your side and the other guy is mostly bulletproof? You are in trouble.Steve Perryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12079658447270792228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14473417.post-87958523908294513552009-10-12T19:12:46.552-07:002009-10-12T19:12:46.552-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Steve Perryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12079658447270792228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14473417.post-26796193041258739142009-10-12T09:36:14.441-07:002009-10-12T09:36:14.441-07:00I agree, Ush, that Achilles invulnerability was no...I agree, Ush, that Achilles invulnerability was not inconsequential, but it was not enough to keep Achilles from being killed by the wimpiest dude in the whole story. Hector was a hell of a lot more of a man than Paris, so if anyone should have had a chance agianst Achilles, it should have been Hector. Shoot, people have even characterized Hector as the best man in either army.<br /><br /><br />I guess all I'm saying is that being convinced you're right lends an advantage while knowing you are in the wrong gives you a disadvantage. Hector knew his killing of Patriclus was an unrighteous killing and he went into battle against Achilles with that disadvantage.<br /><br />You can't go handicapped into a fight with a (nearly) invulnerable dude.Patrick Parkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04471858995477729220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14473417.post-83863342708654591882009-10-12T08:20:15.147-07:002009-10-12T08:20:15.147-07:00I'm gonna say that Achilles being invulnerable...I'm gonna say that Achilles being invulnerable was a way bigger scale tipper than anyones morality. Not to mention the god's royally screwing Hector over during the fight.ushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15994880290682529074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14473417.post-13734093552741163462009-10-11T18:19:36.657-07:002009-10-11T18:19:36.657-07:00I very much liked this post. I especially like th...I very much liked this post. I especially like the "price of admission" bit.<br /><br />I also understand that the Hector/Achilles thing was just an example but I took a different lesson from that story.<br /><br />Achilles was a demogod and was invulnerable. He was also intensely peeved at Hector for killing Patriclus, but none of those were what tipped the scales. <br /><br />Achilles had the moral advantage, where Hector had the moral disadvantage. Hector knew his killing of Patriclus was wrong and that knowledge of his lack of righteousness crippled him in the subsequent fight with Achilles.<br /><br />At least that's what i got from the story.<br /><br />Not that this has a lot to do with your post...Patrick Parkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04471858995477729220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14473417.post-74006399598987675242009-10-11T16:23:09.931-07:002009-10-11T16:23:09.931-07:00Separate analogies. Sorry for the confusion.Separate analogies. Sorry for the confusion.Roryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08483616030072739190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14473417.post-30286264334364168282009-10-11T15:16:34.214-07:002009-10-11T15:16:34.214-07:00uh... sorry for being dense, but who's the rab...uh... sorry for being dense, but who's the rabbit and fox between achilles and hector?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com